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Post by genericdragon on Apr 16, 2010 14:08:24 GMT
I thought I would knock a quick commentary up. In two weeks time all my coursework will have rolled over, and we can start.
Playing this game:
Matthew Vigar - Glen Barrak - Alex Marsh - Sarah Tribedi -
-- The game is set in a fictional fantasy city using 3.5 ruleset of mixed errata.
Open books (minus magical items and monsters):
PHB PHB 2 Complete Adventurer Complete Warrior Complete Divine Complete Arcane
Open chapters on request (some chapters suitable for players):
Dungeonscape Cityscape Frostburn Sandstorm Manual of the Planes Heroes of Horror
Closed (no ~ prc exceptions in the dmg):
DMG DMG 2 Lords of Madness Libris Mortis Savage Species
--
The City
The free city state is a sprawling urban complex situated atop the mighty river Mos near the mouth of the Western sea. To the North is Elyssir a diplomatically silent elven nation and to the East lies the Human Kingdom. South of the city is a turbulent wasteland free from sentient rule.
The city is well known for its missing title and is referred to as the Free City. It is said that the city founder vowed to name the city when it was completed, unfortunately he died before this could come to pass and the city remains unnamed.
(more to come, back to work)
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Post by englishpetal on Apr 16, 2010 16:09:02 GMT
I have a list of questions: @ All of you: Does anyone mind if I play a Beguiler? I've wanted to play one for quite a while now, but I thought I'd check with everyone else before setting my heart on it.
@ Antony: 1) What races are you allowing? 2) What level are we starting at? 3) Are there any classes you're not allowing from the books you've opened?
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Post by genericdragon on Apr 16, 2010 16:35:44 GMT
@sarah / everyone
1)PHB races are permitted. Any mm race with LA will require justification but goblins, kobolds, orcs are all fine. You could play a half fiend orc if you wished (Level 1, LA4) but I would need a history. And a deity/fiend as a parent.
Basically any race not in the phb (inc, varient elves from the mm) ask. Any template or LA race? Ask. Any racial HD race? Think long and hard about the pros and cons, be prepared for some harsh rulings and me walking you through char generation making sure it is correct. LA race with HD? No. Lizardman has HD2 LA1 and I would permit it, but, I know for a fact it gets complicated. Can I play a Half Dragon Aasimar Paladin level 1? Well...
even if you had all tens on stats that str 18, con 12, dex 10, int 12, wis 10, cha 12 character with +4 natural armour, daylight once per day, dc11 reflex 6d8 breath weapon once perday, natural attacks, 60ft dark vision and low light vision AND immunity to sleep and paralysis AND one elemental immunity AND Resistance 5 to acid, cold and electricity....
And yet only 11 hit points. Do you think that's sensible when a +5 Bab fighter negates your natural armour without adding strength? Simply put don't screw yourself or the mechanics will screw you.
2) Level 5
3) All asian classes are out (monk, shujenga, samurai, ninja, wu jen, spirit shaman (- actually is one. Divine is the only book with two)). Warmage is out, Druid (Half the spells won't work and I don't want a character feeling artificial in the setting), Scout (over the whole movement issue), Spellthief (slightly confusing), Dragon Shaman (Auras), Psionics are an exercise in point distribution and forced multiplyers. Joy.
Factotum.
@everyone
Might as well put up what you want to play and resolve it up on here! I will be using this forumn to communicate as much as possible so take heed!
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Post by <imaginative username here> on Apr 16, 2010 18:01:06 GMT
@sarah Beguiler's fine with me. They sound fun to play, and interesting to play alongside. From what Antony explained to me, I gathered that they cover some of wizards' weaknesses and gain a few rogue-esque abilities, at the expense of sheer arcane damage output (which in a city is no bad thing).
@all What are peoples' thoughts on me playing a paladin? I can provide fighty skills for the party, and also dabble in Cleric / Complete Divine divine feats to help heal.
@antony I would also like to propose a prestige class. It's one from Complete Scoundrel, which I saw was not listed in the accepted books, so I thought I'd run it by you before I got my heart set on it. It's the Gray Guard. If you don't have the book to hand:
Requirements: Alignment: LG Knowledge (religion) 8 ranks, Sense Motive 4 ranks Special: Lay on hands class feature Special: Must adhere to a code of conduct that prevents the character from performing evil acts
I won't upload the entire level progression table, but in short - they get good BAB, fort and will saves, d10 hit dice and 2+int skills per level. Their skill list is essentially the Pally's, but with the additions of some more subversive skills like sense motive and bluff. They get +1 to existing divine spellcasting class every other level, slowing down the Paladin's already slow spell progression. Smite evil progresses as normal. They gain a number of abilities focused around enhancing intimidation and interrogation, and at 4th level they gain the ability to use smite evil on chaotic opponents (slaying a chaotic innocent could of course still breach their paladin's code), as well as evil ones. They are allowed to step out of line a little more than straight paladins, due to their "Sacrament of Trust" ability. This means that when a Cleric casts atonement for the gray guard, he does not sacrifice the normal 500exp. I've found an interesting concept on the internets that could work instead of this, but I'll run it by you when we've decided if the class is allowed at all.
I'm more interested in this prestige class for its flavour than its abilities - the idea that the character still upholds most of the bright and shiny values of the paladins, but has no qualms about the means used to smite evildoers. It means I won't insist we wake the sleeping great wyrm dragon and challenge it to a fair fight, and won't be as blockheaded as some paladins are about morally grey situations. Because it's the concept over the abilities that I like, I have no problem with you tweaking anything that is particularly Complete Scoundrel-y about it.
If the answer to Grey Guard is no, I'd still like to play a Paladin - I might just have to toe the line a little more.
Thoughts?
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Post by genericdragon on Apr 16, 2010 18:11:22 GMT
@ Alex
Complete scoundrel is a book I am mildly uncomfortable with, and thus is exclude completely.
Note the paladin code of conduct:
"A paladin must be of lawful good alignment and loses all class abilities if she ever willingly commits an evil act.
Additionally, a paladin’s code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents. "
I have never liked the idea of a paladin being permitted to do any of the above (such as poisoning an evil king) loosing his powers then going and getting them given back for no penalty. If the deity had an issue with it you simply would not get it back or not loose the powers in the first place, or pay a price (xp deficit).
I will happily work to accomodate your character concept, perhaps a glance at Darkbane inquisitor may appeal (note it requires multiclass with rogue), but I would rather work with you to create a prestige class that embraces your concept and will enrich the setting.
Post more details and we can get this bitch (read Evildoer) rolling (towards his inevitable demise).
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Post by <imaginative username here> on Apr 16, 2010 20:03:14 GMT
Alright, fair enough. If you're interested, this is the houserule I found on a forum - instead of grey guards getting a "get out of atonement free" card, they have an alternative code to that of the paladins:
1. Innocent life is important beyond all else. You are one of the good guys. You do not hurt innocent people, or by inaction allow them to be harmed if you can at all prevent it. If it comes down to saving the innocent or punishing the guilty, you must chose the former over the latter.
2. Wicked life is worthless. Those who would willingly, knowingly, and intentionally harm innocent people for personal gain, to show homage to some dark force, for pleasure, or for some other, darker purpose have irrevocably forfeited every right they have ever possessed as a consequence of their actions. They may be blackmailed, tortured, lied to, intimidated, harmed, or killed outright. These actions should not be taken lightly or for their own sake, but when it is necessary to do so, do not shrink from what must be done.
3. Justice is superior to mercy. Forgiveness is for the afterlife. If there is no way to undo the actions that have drawn your attention, there can be no forgiveness for them. Do not be swayed by pleas for mercy. Think of the victims and dispense justice, not mercy.
4. Know before acting. Those who mistake the innocent for the wicked can swiftly become wicked themselves. Should this happen to you, your former brethren will show you no special treatment.
5. Be implacable. No evildoer should ever achieve more than a temporary victory against you. If they prevail or escape and you yet live, marshall whatever resources are necessary and hunt them down.
6. Honor is discipline. Rather than devoting yourself to some abstract and limiting code of fair play or chivalrous combat, develop your self into the most finely-honed weapon you can. Condition your body, mind, and soul to be the perfect weapon against those who would oppress and destroy. Never allow yourself to forget what it is that you are sworn to preserve, or allow cynicism to cloud the distinction between those who need protection and those they must be protected from.
7. Win. Your job is to keep the wolves away from the sheep. Do what you have to and lose no sleep over it. Keep yourself in top fighting condition and do not allow mysticism, ritual, comfort or tradition to interfere with your singularity of purpose. Against the foes you face, there is no room for fairness. They will not show it to you. Use whatever tactics and resources you have at your disposal to achieve victory, for if they win, the result will be much worse.
If the Grey Guard deviates from this (GM's discretion, as always), act as if they broke their code as normal - they lose all GG / Paladin class abilities, and can only get them back by atoning. Unlike the vanilla grey guard, the xp cost still applies.
That way, one can still have a "loose cannon" paladin, without it utterly breaking any need for said paladin to follow a code of conduct. If we can between us come up with something along those lines, that is what I want to play.
Regardless of anything else, however, I'd quite like to play a Paladin - either L5, or L3 with a bit of dabbling in Cleric, Fighter or (god forbid) Favoured Soul. Dabbling will be dependent on me finding a paladin-ish prestige class to go for, however, so I can keep advancing in that direction (paladins have the fun multiclass restriction on all base classes, but not prestige classes, right?).
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Post by genericdragon on Apr 16, 2010 20:20:41 GMT
Yes on prestige classes, the only exceptions are those that explicitly state as such. Kensai and Shadowbane Inquisitor are the main ones.
As said I will happily work to build, from the ground up, a prestige class suited for your desires.
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Post by <imaginative username here> on Apr 16, 2010 20:52:15 GMT
Well, I'm going to vegetate in front of the TV for a bit, but if you want some ideas to mull over - I was thinking high BAB, high Will, d10 hit die and normal physical skills, with perhaps a few more subversive ones. Perhaps scrap divine spellcasting progression in return for some fear-based special abilities? I'll have to speak to you in person and have a look in some sourcebooks for inspiration.
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Post by genericdragon on Apr 16, 2010 21:04:45 GMT
Aye. Well I'll build the class and see what you think before the night is out.
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Post by genericdragon on Apr 16, 2010 23:15:58 GMT
Mean PaladinHit Dice: D10 Prerequisites: Lawful Good Alignment, BAB +5, 4 ranks in Gather Information, 4 ranks in Intimidate, 8 ranks in Sense Motive, Iron Will, Level | BAB | Fort Save | Ref Save | Will Save | Special | 1 | +1 | +2 | +0 | +0 | Fear Ability | 2 | +2 | +3 | +0 | +0 | Ability | 3 | +3 | +3 | +1 | +1 | Ability | 4 | +4 | +4 | +1 | +1 | Fear Ability | 5 | +5 | +4 | +1 | +1 | Smite 1/day | 6 | +6 | +5 | +2 | +2 | Ability | 7 | +7 | +5 | +2 | +2 | Fear Ability | 8 | +8 | +6 | +2 | +2 | Ability | 9 | +9 | +6 | +3 | +3 | Ability | 10 | +10 | +7 | +3 | +3 | Smite 2/day, Fear Ability |
Class SkillsThe Mean paladin’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (nobility and royalty) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), and Sense Motive (Wis). Skill Points at Each Additional Level2 + Int modifier. Absolute Convictionif your alignment changes from Lawful Good, you may not take any more level of Mean Paladin, but you keep your current abilities. Fear Ability (Ex)You are somewhat scary. Key abilities. Replaces cure disease. Ability (Ex)A special ability not fear based to flesh out the levels. Minor benefits. Smite(Su)Once per day, a mean paladin may attempt to smite with one normal melee attack. Unlike smite evil this can be used against any target and is fuelled by the mean paladins conviction. She adds her Charisma bonus (if any) to her attack roll and deals 1 extra point of damage per mean paladin level. Replaces Smites, spells and turning. Being able to smite neutral creatures is unbelievably useful. NotesCan multiclass freely with paladin and stacks for the purposes of determining smite damage, but not turning. Counts towards paladin levels for determining blackguard benefits. ------------ This kind of layout may suite you? You'll notice the similarity between the advancement of this and of 6-15 paladins. That was intentionally, it is intended to ptovide a variation as opposed to a seperate class. LG clerics could also enter but would experience a combat oriented developement abandoning spells. Also, it may be worth seeing what everyone else wishes to do before hand. I will produce some class abilities once people have decided.
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Post by <imaginative username here> on Apr 17, 2010 12:07:48 GMT
Looks good to me. That is pretty much what I had in mind. As you said, we can discuss the details when the others have decided what they want to play, and if they're okay with my concept. Are we planning to meet up tomorrow?
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Post by genericdragon on Apr 17, 2010 13:10:14 GMT
Nope, Matt isn't back yet.
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Post by <imaginative username here> on Apr 17, 2010 17:43:46 GMT
Fair enough. I'll spend tomorrow trying out Neil's Serenity game then. Do you know when Matt gets back / Matt, when do you get back? I'm rather excited about this now.
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Post by genericdragon on Apr 17, 2010 18:02:10 GMT
Who dropped out?
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Post by <imaginative username here> on Apr 17, 2010 18:38:23 GMT
Not sure - just got a text from Becki asking on behalf of Neil if I wanted to play tomorrow.
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